The Spike/Buffy comics debate

[caliente_uk]

I wasn't sure whether I should post about this or not, but as a long time Spuffy shipper I thought I'd say a little bit about how I feel about the comics.

I still love Spuffy with a fiery burning passion. I can't help it, I just do. And as much as I love The Vampire Diaries and True Blood, no other show or characters have ever made me feel the way I do about Spike and Buffy, and I doubt they ever will. Spike and Buffy (and the Spuffy ship) were special, and somehow seemed to take on a life of their own that transcended anything I'd ever seen before or since.

I've been in love with Spuffy for more than a decade, but for me canon ended with Chosen/Not Fade Away. I have read the comics (including the preview pages), so I'm not saying this without knowing the full story. But the Spuffy of the comics isn't my Spuffy. They're not recognisable as the Spike and Buffy I fell in love with on the show, so they don't meet my own personal expectations of where I hoped they would be (and where I felt they were heading) after the show ended. And I'm not going to lie, I'm disappointed in what the comics have shown me of my ship. I never expected a happy ending in canon, but somehow I found myself expecting...more.



So as far as I'm concerned the Buffy the Vampire Slayer as I knew it is over. I've finally come to the conclusion that (imo) the comics will never be anything more than a poor substitute for the real thing. Anything else I need from Spike/Buffy I'll get from reading fanfic, and I'll be content with that.

But just because I've come to that conclusion doesn't mean that I don't have respect for people who do still love the comics, and are continuing to have their expectations met. I'm genuinely happy for those who continue to get the Spuffy they want from the comics, but unfortunately (sadly) I'm not one of them. I'd like nothing more than to see what they see, but no matter how hard I try I just...can't. But that's only how I feel. I'm not speaking for anyone else, just myself. One opinion in a sea of many, many different opinions.

As I said on jamalov29's journal, the thing that upsets me the most about this (hopefully not permanent) split in the Spuffy fandom is the (inevitable) hurt feelings on both sides of the debate. It's such a shame that having differing opinions and interpretations of the text has come to this. And it's a particularly sad day for the Spuffy fandom that one of our most talented writers has felt the need to take a step back from fandom because of it. I can only hope that she hasn't decided to leave us for good, as this fandom wouldn't be the same without her.

But I also empathise with the other side of the debate, even though (as much as I want to) I can't agree with their point of view. It upsets me that people I have great respect and admiration for are feeling hurt and/or disillusioned by something that we're all supposed to love. :(



My only consolation is that this fandom has been through many stormy waters before, and has always come out the other side stronger than it was before. Maybe this time will be the same? :)

Comments

[shapinglight]

:sigh:

Well said, Cal. I hope that things will blow over. After all, we all love the same 'ship. We just love it in different ways and for different reasons.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

It's a sad state of affairs at the moment, isn't it? *sigh*

Thanks, Deb. I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

I still love Spuffy with a fiery burning passion. I can't help it, I just do. And as much as I love The Vampire Diaries and True Blood, no other show or characters have ever made me feel the way I do about Spike and Buffy, and I doubt they ever will. Spike and Buffy (and the Spuffy ship) were special, and somehow seemed to take on a life of their own that transcended anything I'd ever seen before or since.


Yes, the same here. :: huggles you ::

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

*huggles back*

[gillo]

I agree so much. I am so sad that people have been offended and hurt, which I'm sure nobody intended. Especially because I can see both sides of the debate, even if I tend to come down on the "comics are mildly interesting but irrelevant to my real concerns" side.

I love the concept of Spuffy, love reading and writing it, and don't expect the comics to have a real effect - how could they? It takes Sarah and James to embody these characters before I can really take it seriously - certainly not those scrawls in the comics. But as Joss wrote it, I fully understand how it affects some other people, and they have my sympathy whichever way they interpret the frames.

::sighs::

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

I agree with you. James and Sarah helped turn Spike and Buffy into the characters we know and love, and without their performances breathing life into them, the characters in the comics are just poor substitutes for the real thing.

But I think we have to sympathise with both sides of the debate, as we know how it feels to have something we love ripped to shreds by other people. And it isn't a nice feeling!

I have to admit that Joss being involved in the comics is one of the reasons why I've stuck with them for so long. But not even Joss is enough to keep me interested now. I'll stick to fanfiction from now on! :)

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I love this post. Thanks for writing it.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! Thank you for reading it. :)

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I hope you're right and this will blow over and fandom will become fun again.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

::loves and hugs you for your kind heart::

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Caroline. *hugs back*

[sarian71]

*nods head vigorously*

Well said, I couldn't possibly agree with you more.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)

[shakatany.livejournal.com]

people who do still love the comics, and are continuing to have their expectations met Are there really fans of the series out there who like the comics? I can see the Bangel lovers happy that the relationship has apparently been vindicated but in such a way? With the destruction of the Earth (and Angel's character)? It seems to me that every major BtVS character is out-of-character especially Buffy, who when last seen in her SMG incarnation, was a young woman on her way to becoming a wise and mature leader not this rebooted teenager who acts as appallingly like Harmony.

I was dubious about the comics going in but really, is anyone except maybe the fanboys these comics seem aimed at, happy with this version of BtVS?

Shakatany

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

You'd be surprised how many fans of the series are still enjoying the comics. There's a huge debate going on about how Spike and Buffy (and their relationship) are being dealt with in the comics, and fandom is literally split in two over it at the moment.

The comics don't work for me personally, but I'm happy for those who are still enjoying them. :)

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

Very well put. While I may disagree with you, I love the respect and understanding with which you put forth your own opinion, and I think that's what everyone's trying to do, even if it translates to text as extreme offensiveness or defensiveness. I, too, hope this blows over, because it feels like my heart is ripped in two when my fandom is pulled apart like this.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)

I think it's important to have respect for other people and to consider their feelings, even if you don't necessarily agree with their point of view. I also know from experience how horrible and distressing it can be to be caught in the middle of a fandom kerfuffle, which is why I think it's important to try to have empathy for both sides of the debate.

But I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

[pamsblau.livejournal.com]

I disagree with you about the comics but i respect your oppinion and i offer you lots of hugs for your kind heart.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I think the most important thing is that we have respect for people who have opinions that are different to our own. We're all here out of love for the Buffyverse after all, even if we don't happen to agree on certain aspects of it. :)

*hugs back*

Welcome to my flist, btw. It's good to have you here!

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

I can only hope that she hasn't decided to leave us for good, as this fandom wouldn't be the same without her.

:(
True.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Hopefully she'll decide to come back after taking a step back for a while. I think we all need a little break from fandom from time to time.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

but for me canon ended with Chosen/Not Fade Away.

Me too.

And I totally agree about the writer in question. Although I am very happy to read about her dog....

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Although I am very happy to read about her dog....

Me too. One of the things I love about LJ is the fact it has such a great mixture of both fandom and more personal posts. I enjoy reading about my friends real lives just as much (if not more at times) as I enjoy their fandom posts.

[louise39.livejournal.com]

...no other show or characters have ever made me feel the way I do about Spike and Buffy, and I doubt they ever will.

I just feel badly over all this...

:hugs:

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

I just feel badly over all this...

It's a sad state of affairs, but hopefully things will blow over soon and fandom can get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be.

*hugs back*

[http://users.livejournal.com/opalescence_/]

My ignorance about the comics is apparently truly bliss. I don't even want to know. Canon ended for me at Chosen, as well.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

You're definitely better off not knowing. I wish I didn't!

Yes, I think I'm much happier believing canon ended at Chosen. I'll stick to reading fanfic when I need my Spuffy fix. :)

*hugs*

[timeofchange.livejournal.com]

What you said.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you. :)

[herald-mari.livejournal.com]

First off... *HUGS*

I'm afraid I haven't kept up with the comics. Someone told me they did a Riley issue, and even my great Riley love couldn't get me to seek it out. I couldn't get into the comics personally, but didn't know if it was that I'm really not a comics person.

I'm sure we'll get through this.

*HUGS*

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Mary. *hugs back*

I don't think I'm a comics person either, to be honest, which is probably one of the reasons why they don't work for me. I've tried my hardest to like them, but I just...can't.

I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

It's good to see you, btw. I'm so behind on LJ! Hope everything is okay with you. *more hugs*

[angearia.livejournal.com]

♥

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

I have been absolutely heartbroken since the Bangel crap. I love Spuffy. Spuffy in the comic is over for me. Broccoli/cake made me laugh a lot and feel better.

I was also happy to read Emmie's optimistic posts.

I enjoyed them both, although I don't share the optimism. I didn't see any diminishing. Just different opinions.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

To be honest, the Bangel stuff was so ridiculous I couldn't take it seriously. But I understand how you feel. Spuffy is incredibly important to me, and the comics aren't even beginning to do them justice as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, the broccoli/cake made me smile too, but I can understand why Emmie was upset, even though (imo) no disrespect was ever intended by anyone.

I love both Emmie's and Barb's posts, even though I don't always agree with everything they say. It would be a shame if either of them decided to turn their back on fandom over this, as differing opinions are just that - opinions. They're not meant to be taken personally at all.

But I have every faith that this will blow over in time, and that fandom will get back to being the fun place it's supposed to be. It's just a shame that people (on both sides of the debate) are feeling so hurt over the whole thing. :(

Thanks for commenting. :)

[sidhlairiel.livejournal.com]

Hi there :) Just wanted to say thank you for such a lovely and eloquent post. When I stand back and look at things my own personal canon also ends with Not Fade Away, although I do include the general premise of After the Fall in there too. Anything past that or on the Buffy side of the comics I just find really really hard to reconcile with tv canon 'cause it's so completely different both in tone and medium. And yet I cannot look away from these comics because there's still this flicker of hope remaining in me... I mean, I love doomed ships as much as the next girl, but I actually want the two characters to want to be together, y'know?

TL;DR, I'm glad that some peeps are enjoying the comics. I'm glad that others are happy to ignore them and focus on the tv show. It just makes my heart ache that fandom is getting all 'splodey about this.

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Hi! Welcome to my LJ. :)

Thank you so much for your lovely comment.

It just makes my heart ache that fandom is getting all 'splodey about this.

Yes, it's a shame to see so many people upset over this. And judging by the latest issue things aren't going to get any less stressful. *sigh*

[cordykitten]

*points to icon*
'nuff said. :D

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Yep. :D

*hugs*

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this post, hon. *hugs*

[caliente-uk.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reading! *hugs back*