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That spoiler from S8

Do you know what amuses me most about the latest spoiler from the BtVS S8 comics?

So many people (and I include myself in this) keep on saying that they 'really don't care what happens', that they're 'not interested' and that they 'don't count what happens in the comics as canon', and yet...when something happens that they really don't like (or really do like - it works both ways!)? They can't help but post about it, expressing their displeasure (or amusement *g*) at the latest development!

So it strikes me that they care about what happens so much more than they like to admit!

And that's understandable.

*Disclaimer - these are my own opinions only. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view, and I have the utmost respect for anyone who enjoys the comics and has a different opinion to mine*

Even though the comics don't work for me (I gave up on them a while ago), I still care about what happens to the characters I've loved for more than a decade. They may not be recognisable as the characters I knew on the show, but something deep inside of me still wants things to work out for them the way *I* want them to.

So yes...I still want Angel to be redeemed, I still want Spike to be...well, to be *Spike*, the complex character I know and love. And yes, I still want Spike and Buffy to have their happy ending.

I don't want Buffy to be a bank robber, or Dawn to be a giant, or Angel to be Twilight. And I certainly don't want Spike to be shafted yet again in favour of some 'tru luv 4eva' storyline that should have been put to bed years ago (sorry, but it still stings :P).

And then of course there are the Buffyverse fans, or the Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Xander or *insert characters of your choice* 'shippers who want their version of events to happen.

So there are always going to be fans who don't get what they want - although some always seem to be given more crumbs than others. *sigh*

So yes, it amuses me greatly that the comics aren't even a 'blip on my radar' (words I've used recently) - until, of course, something happens that make me realise that they really are. And as cracktastic and unbelievable as the storylines are, I desperately want my favourite characters to be given an ending that's worthy of them.

So more than anything, I hope that Joss has an ending planned that makes perfect sense, doesn't ruin everything that has gone before - and will please at least some (if not all) of his fan base. But at this point? I'm not convinced that he has.

I hope he proves me wrong.

But putting the comics to one side for a moment...

I've been thinking about fandom lately, and how other people see those of us who are involved in one. Without naming any names, I've been dabbling in a few other fandoms lately (but mainly on the outside looking in)...and I haven't really liked what I've seen. There are some seriously weird people out there! And I have to wonder - is that how other people see us? Do we come across like that to them?

*ponders*

*looks up*

*reads own post*

I guess that answers that one then! *g*

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Even though the comics don't work for me (I gave up on them a while ago), I still care about what happens to the characters I've loved for more than a decade.

This is exactly how I feel! And why I can get a little shirty if people imply I shouldn't care just because I don't invest my time very heavily (/really at all) in the comics - because I still invest (and have invested over the past twelve years) so much of my time in BtVS and care a lot about the characters.

And why I can get a little shirty if people imply I shouldn't care just because I don't invest my time very heavily (/really at all) in the comics

I know exactly what you mean! We don't stop caring about the characters just because the comics don't work for us. I wish I could brush the comics aside, but I'm still as invested in the characters as I ever was.

There are some seriously weird people out there! And I have to wonder - is that how other people see us? Do we come across like that to them?

Oh, don't talk silly! We are cool and our fandom-related conversations are fascinating. Everyone wants to be us. ;)

*nods*

You are so right! *g*

I'm so out of the loop it's unreal. What's the spoiler?

I gave up on the comics when Dawn turned into a centaur

What's the spoiler?

That Angel is Twilight, the supposed 'Big Bad' of S8.

I gave up on the comics a while ago, too.

Ahh! So Angel is evil, again?

I thought there wasn't going to be any crossovers between Buffy and Angel. Or did I imagine that? Because if Spike was in the Buffy comics I might come back to them. LOL!

So Angel is evil, again?

Well, that remains to be seen. The covers have been accidentally leaked (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24354), but we don't know the full story yet, other than that he is Twilight.

I thought there wasn't going to be any crossovers between Buffy and Angel. Or did I imagine that?

No, you didn't imagine it. That's what I thought too!

Because if Spike was in the Buffy comics I might come back to them. LOL!

There's been a lot of speculation about that since the Angel reveal. :)

No, you didn't imagine it. That's what I thought too!

The official word is:

There will be no crossovers, in the sense of "a storyline from the Dark Horse 'Buffy' comics will be continued in the IDW 'Angel' comics, so you have to buy comics from both companies to find out what happens".

However, when Joss was planning out the Season 8 storyline (five years ago) and decided to make Angel Buffy's main antagonist, he asked IDW if they had any objections. It was agreed Dark Horse could make use of the character "sparingly" in Season 8; since, after all, Angel is Joss's creation.

However, when Joss was planning out the Season 8 storyline (five years ago) and decided to make Angel Buffy's main antagonist, he asked IDW if they had any objections. It was agreed Dark Horse could make use of the character "sparingly" in Season 8; since, after all, Angel is Joss's creation.

Thanks for the clearing that up! :)

No... we don't want Spike in the Buffy comics! Joss will only trash him again. Personally, I want Spike as far away from the mess as possible, because JW doesn't have a clue anymore.

*pouts and stamps foot*

A very valid point

I'm so with you on this. I really don't want Spike anywhere near S8! If I could have had my way, I'd have kept Angel far away from it, too.

I have absolutely no interest in a 'Season 8'. It all ended in the alley at the end of NFA and Spike went out fighting, standing shoulder to shoulder with Angel.

There are some seriously weird people out there! And I have to wonder - is that how other people see us?

It all ended in the alley at the end of NFA and Spike went out fighting, standing shoulder to shoulder with Angel.

That was such a great finale!

Hee! I love that. How very true! :D

We're all perfectly normal and not at all bonkers. Honest.

I have read a few of the collected TPBs of the comics because my family have given them to me, but most of the time I just scan the reviews, decide it's even more crackfic than I thought and move on. But I agree - I care so much about these characters that a tiny bit of me doesn't want the comics to destroy any of the balance as it existed at NFA. I may want a Spuffy ending, but I respect the needs of other shippers and am happy enough for it to stay vague so I can dream on.

My guess is that the spoiler covers are like the Spike/Angel/Buffy-in-chains frame, a dream of Buffy's, not "reality" even within the comicsverse. Joss so loves to tease shippers.

You know, we really ought to be in bed by now! Good night, pet.

We're all perfectly normal and not at all bonkers. Honest.

I believe you, Gill. *g*

But I agree - I care so much about these characters that a tiny bit of me doesn't want the comics to destroy any of the balance as it existed at NFA.

I would have been quite happy for NFA to have been the 'official' end of the story. It was such a great finale, and I had fanfic to help keep my favourite characters alive. I enjoyed the comics at first, and stuck with them a lot longer than I would have if they hadn't been about the Buffyverse, but the storylines eventually got so cracktastic and unbelievable that I just couldn't bring myself to read them any more.

I may want a Spuffy ending, but I respect the needs of other shippers and am happy enough for it to stay vague so I can dream on.

That's exactly how I feel. I hope Joss stays away from the 'shipping aspect of the story, so we can just carry on living in our own little 'shipper bubbles! That way everyone will be happy. :)

My guess is that the spoiler covers are like the Spike/Angel/Buffy-in-chains frame, a dream of Buffy's, not "reality" even within the comicsverse. Joss so loves to tease shippers

I have a feeling that you're probably right. My guess is that it's either a dream sequence or a past memory.

Goodnight, Gill. Sleep well! :)

I just don't want him to ruin them, y'know?

That's mostly why it's easier to point and call them crackfic because if I have to think about it seriously, I might become very irked.

I just don't want him to ruin them, y'know?

That's exactly how I feel.

That's mostly why it's easier to point and call them crackfic because if I have to think about it seriously, I might become very irked.

Oh, I understand, believe me. I've been doing the same myself. It's so much easier to mock! :)

Right there with you...

I don't want Buffy to be a bank robber, or Dawn to be a giant, or Angel to be Twilight.

Dawn isn't a giant anymore. They broke the curse and she's back to normal, having learned some valuable life lessons from her time transformed. :-) So it's only two out of three...

They broke the curse and she's back to normal, having learned some valuable life lessons from her time transformed. :-) So it's only two out of three...

Oh well, at least that's something. *g*

But seriously, I knew that Dawn was back to normal again...and I'd heard that she'd hooked up with Xander? Is that true? I'd be quite happy about that if it was. I've read some great Xander/Dawn fanfics. :)

It's true.

When Dawn was going through all those changes, Xander was the one who made time to talk to her, showed an interest, etc (Buffy was always too busy...); then after Dawn got back to normal, the two of them bonded even more over being the only two non-superpowered people in the Slayer Army, and eventually Dawn told Xander to stop wasting time and just kiss her already, dammit. (Or words to that effect).

Of course this happened just before Buffy searched her heart and realised she kind of had romantic feelings for Xander too. In the Jossverse the course of true love never runs smooth...

Buffy searched her heart and realised she kind of had romantic feelings for Xander too.

I am going to try very hard to forget I heard that.

Comics don't really appeal to me, and anyway I feared them tainting the post NFA possibilities, so other than following the reviews, at least at first, I've never bothered. The more I read about S8 the more determined I am to shut it out.

I feared them tainting the post NFA possibilities

That's the biggest fear for me too. I followed them for quite some time, but gave up on them a few months ago. I had hoped that Spike and Angel would be kept far, far away from them, but alas...

I'd heard about the Buffy/Xander thing. Colour me not surprised that Joss went there. I love Xander, but I could never be on board with that pairing. I bet that surprises you, doesn't it? :P

But Xander/Dawn? That works for me! :)

I wouldn't really call Xander /Buffy a "pairing" in Season 8, at least so far. Thanks to some intense magical meditation and stuff Buffy was relaxed, loved-up and contemplative for the first time in about two years, and started thinking about her life and the people she was close to and who were important to her, and decided there was maybe something there to explore with Xander.

So of course next time she saw him, he was in the middle of kissing Dawn. Cue surprise and angst from Buffy.

Edited 2010-01-10 14:05 (UTC)

So of course next time she saw him, he was in the middle of kissing Dawn. Cue surprise and angst from Buffy.

Now that's what I call timing! So typical of Buffy... :)

It's all fascinating stuff!

I thought Riley was Twilight? But no? Like you, I couldn't get into the comics, but I do care about the characters.

OMG! Just saw... and I LOVE YOUR LJ'S NEW HEADER! AWESOME!

Thank you! :D

Wilf is now my favourite companion ever, and The Master is just plain awesome! :D But I'm going to miss Ten. :(

No, it's been confirmed that it's Angel (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24354).

I care too much about the characters not to be bothered that Joss could potentially ruin them. But I still live in hope...

So more than anything, I hope that Joss has an ending planned that makes perfect sense, doesn't ruin everything that has gone before - and will please at least some (if not all) of his fan base. But at this point? I'm not convinced that he has.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Yeah exactly that, I can't really pretend to be completely indifferent and I loved that S8 would be the first season I can discuss in fandom while it runs (+ I am a huge comic fan, so the media is bonus for me), but now I lose more and more confidence.

Mainly because there are allready so many things in the comics that are treated only superficially with no explaination at all. And even if the ending turns out to be good, I can't see, how it can make the individual arcs less of a drag.

I wish I could bring myself to read it as crack only, but since it's canon it still feels bad to see it so botched up.

"Mainly because there are already so many things in the comics that are treated only superficially with no explanation at all. And even if the ending turns out to be good, I can't see, how it can make the individual arcs less of a drag."

Exactly. that sums up my feelings on the whole deal too.

But canon or not I find it easier to ignore the comic then I would do a live action production. Once actors get involved then things become more difficult to dodge as far as I'm concerned.

Once actors get involved then things become more difficult to dodge as far as I'm concerned.

You are so right, Sue. That doesn't even bear thinking about! *shudders*

I am a huge comic fan, so the media is bonus for me

And that's where we differ. I'd never read comics before, so that was a huge stumbling block for me in the first place. And then the storylines got so ridiculous, I couldn't stick with them any longer.

I wish I could bring myself to read it as crack only, but since it's canon it still feels bad to see it so botched up.

When you've loved a show and its characters for as long as we have, it's hard to see them taken in such a completely different direction than we could ever have expected. And as much as the comics don't appeal to me, it still hurts.

Thanks for the comment! :)

How did you guess that behind my supreme indifference I still cared about Spike and Buffy?? :D

Seriously , like you , while I don't read the comics and don't really mind about what kind of crackfic Joss and his team are writing, I hope that in the end they won't ruin everything that has gone before.

How did you guess that behind my supreme indifference I still cared about Spike and Buffy?? :D

I have no idea. *g*

I hope that in the end they won't ruin everything that has gone before.

I don't want to care, but of course I do. I try to ignore the comics on the whole, but I've loved these characters for so long it would feel like some sort of betrayal if Joss ruined them now.

"I desperately want my favourite characters to be given an ending that's worthy of them."

*nods* These characters have become our friends and family, maybe even lovers (;P)! So it's only natural we care about them and feel very protective of them, just like we care about and feel protective of our rl loved ones (and that includes annoying family members, too...). We want the very best for them. We want them to be treated with respect. We want them to have the attention they deserve. It is more than understandable. And that's the way it should be.

We want the very best for them. We want them to be treated with respect.

This is exactly it. It doesn't even matter if the story doesn't go how we want it to - as long as everything that has gone before is treated with respect.

All the people I have met in the Tolkien-verse are very civilised...

I still think I did Dawn a favour, rescuing her from all the horrible things that would have happened to her in the comics and using her Keyness to move her to Middle Earth!

All the people I have met in the Tolkien-verse are very civilised...

I'm not very familiar with the Tolkien-verse fandom, so I'll take your word for it. :)

I still think I did Dawn a favour, rescuing her from all the horrible things that would have happened to her in the comics and using her Keyness to move her to Middle Earth!

Oh, you most definitely did! I've always loved Dawn, and she deserved so much better than what Joss did to her.

Awww, I love S8. At least it's new BtVS, and an improvement from S7 where the best thing was only Spuffy. Now every character has something to do, and they're not pushed to the background.

We don't know the whole story with Angel!Twilight, I guess it'll make sense by the end of this year where S8 ends.

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*That* spoiler from S8

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That spoiler from S8